Motorcycle Riders - You're Leaning the Wrong Way
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Ever notice that police motorcyclists lean their bodies *away* from a turn? They're trained to. But why might this uncommon body position be helpful for our motorbikes?

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Kommentteja
  • keyogen
    keyogen

    Just found a race video that show all three styles of turning. fibill.info/nick/videot/2HSCi5vHe5OZZ2o

  • Andrew Grundy
    Andrew Grundy

    Marquez is the most skilled? At what, sliding in his arse? It takes more skill to stay on your bike than it does to fall of otherwise any tool could be the most skilled.

  • Bob Bellendovich
    Bob Bellendovich

    "If I'm tucking down here, my view is only left, like VOX." Dats a goot juan! 😆

  • ppk fcc
    ppk fcc

    NO

  • ad78
    ad78

    Shots fired 😂

  • Matthew Hoff
    Matthew Hoff

    dammit, no matter the topic, I always find myself enjoying these videos.

  • reptilesgamers00
    reptilesgamers00

    When do you ever lean normally? Coming from a dual sport I've always counterland not knowing it was weird

  • joel james
    joel james

    I thought “giggity” too loll

  • Bhaskar Bhattacharya
    Bhaskar Bhattacharya

    Horrible

  • alejandro mendoza Jiménez
    alejandro mendoza Jiménez

    This is not the first time you’ve seen this video and you know it

  • Avocado's Constant
    Avocado's Constant

    The second time you brought that (man with 2 penises joke) up .. just like the man with 2 penises says

  • Pc Grova
    Pc Grova

    Beg to disagree: the physics is always right but the interpretation not so. In wet weather your advice is plain dangerous for the reasons below. Counter leaning always sacrifices grip.. you've got less than the max .. but you do it to maintain a stable centre of gravity compared to *where the bike is going*; so it is *only* appropriate on corner exit (where the requirement for max grip lessens as you bring on judicious throttle; NB 4.22m mark) or when sliding to avoid outcomes like a highside (ie. extremes of bike v body c.o.g too far apart) and to dampen the effects of too much throttle on exit, where the rear of the bike skids out but towards and under your counter-leaning body. The question to ask is not whether your bike is fast in a straight line etc. Thats nonsense. You're trying to induce better grip at the tyre patch thats it. What ever makes the patch bigger the better. So we likewise agree, the more weight over the patch the better, but the area of the patch in combination with the weight through it, will always provide a higher safety margin when leaning in to the corner... especially in the wet.

  • akhri vlog
    akhri vlog

    nice video bro love from pakistan

  • IL MOSTRO
    IL MOSTRO

    Imagine MM93’s MotoGP 2022 comeback with counter leaning. 😂. Counter leaning is correct in low speed turns or on non sport bikes, but in high speed turns you’re going to die counter leaning because your tire patch with be too small for the speed. Lean the bike less and your body more in high speed turns to keep fatter rubber on the ground. There’s a reason professional paved track racers lean in down to their knee sliders, it’s not just for show.

  • Jana Cunningham
    Jana Cunningham

    Thank you Ryan, your content is alway informative, practical and often down right hilarious!

  • Patrick Quinn
    Patrick Quinn

    Nope, each end every one of you all got it completely wrong! Every single one of you!! When I'm taking my turns at 210+ miles an hour the trick is to lean backwards and outwards as far as you can midturn. It's also essential to lube up your treads and rotors to help keep the temperature down. Trust me, your bike will end up doing most of the work from that point on 🤛👊✊👍

  • Luke Warmwater
    Luke Warmwater

    I always steered with my feet when I had my 86 ex-500. sharper turn, step on that peg harder. I ride more neutral on my 11 special.

  • DaveM3Fan
    DaveM3Fan

    Excellent content, as always.

  • Soraya Imperial
    Soraya Imperial

    It's interesting to hear "for most of you riders, counterlean might look wrong". I'm a very new rider (1 year) and I've done ALL my corners (both slow maneuvres and fast corners) counterleaning because I felt more comfortable, more stable, more in control and overall faster at turning. It just felt so intuitive ever since the first day I sat my butt on a bike. Body position was not taught in classes, probably because neutral generally works fine for never going past 80 or 90km/h. Only like last month I thought "well, I should learn proper cornering, because everyone leans into turns" and am positively bad at it. Glad to see it explained with the vectors, makes a lot of sense and I'm just fine counterleaning, even if everyone else says I look stupid doing it.

  • Aldrin Jay Montero
    Aldrin Jay Montero

    the underrated channel became popular 👏

  • Graham Pinkston
    Graham Pinkston

    Ok so I am right to lean and not counter lean when ripping my crotch rocket around always going for max corner speed. I knew my math was right.

  • Graham Pinkston
    Graham Pinkston

    A bit raunchy but love it !!!

  • Lukas von Daheim
    Lukas von Daheim

    You inspired me to get my lazy ass going and taking motorcyling classes. Yesterday I had my first two driving lections and holly I love it Thank you for your awesome work!

  • Dean Forrest
    Dean Forrest

    Got to be the most punctual and informative automotive journalist I've come across .. much better than Clarkson 🤔

  • eGalt
    eGalt

    I am on the island--you are great! Now, what adventure bike? Norden 901?

  • Shocka1111
    Shocka1111

    I wish he would have mentioned it here, but SBK and GP racers a lot of the time enter heavy braking corners crossed up a bit, then will lean after they are into the corner. I raced SBK for several years and it feels like the front sticks better, not to mention you have more of a chance keeping the bike up if you lose the front. Once you are set in the corner, it’s back to biz and hanging off as usual. I believe these methods are meant for a racetrack though. My opinion of all this is that people should do whatever works for them depending on the type of motorcycle, corner and riding. Also, one method could be safer than the other - I’m thinking of those street rides where you are tearing ass down a country road that tends to look like a dump truck dropped a load of limestone randomly at every other corner - if you are GP leaned off mid-corner and you hit a patch of gravel your buddies will be picking you (hopefully alive) and your bike out of the ditch, woods, or whatever. All the Ricky Racers out there in sportbike racing are pulling the craziest of yoga moves in order to drag their elbows mid-corner. It’s great for pictures, but we should never forget that not long ago crossed up racers like Larry Pegram were turning laps consistently right on the lap record at tracks all over the USA, some of them possibly having records which still haven’t been broken yet.

  • Filip Mucala
    Filip Mucala

    i have never thought of it like that, but i gave it a try and it work flawless ... thanks man !

  • Wayne Heart
    Wayne Heart

    the reference " Forcing a curve " ?

  • Alexei Stepanov
    Alexei Stepanov

    Enter as fast as possible, pivot, and pull out hard. Giggity! Who else but FortNine?

  • SquashyCrane97
    SquashyCrane97

    best motorcycle channel keep up the good work 👍🏻

  • Brad Rennick
    Brad Rennick

    How do you make physics palatable for for the average person? Blow shit up (Myth Busters), or slather with filthy innuendo (FortNine), equally effective :)

  • Jorge WMRIDER_ADVENTURES
    Jorge WMRIDER_ADVENTURES

    After two other “response” videos it went in a circle. F9 wins lol

  • Moontreker Ben
    Moontreker Ben

    Nice done!!

  • Arthur B
    Arthur B

    Love the video!

  • David Pyzik
    David Pyzik

    The Vox one got me

  • Indian Creek
    Indian Creek

    If you hit a deer broadside, what’s the best counter measure?

  • Frances Colley
    Frances Colley

    Ryan, this is all good stuff but I believe you've missed the reason why counterleaning is really adopted by dirt riders as opposed to leaning in as practised by road racers and fast street riders. Whilst it's relatively easy to square off corners in moto-x, enduro and supermoto, (effectively overlaying a 'V' onto a 'U') it's not that easy to do without getting in a whole lot of poo on a bitumen circuit or a curvy road where the curve is precisely defined by track sausages, lane markings, dirt edges and other road users. The counterleaning method as taught by police rider training 'experts' in jurisdictions all around the world is mostly done at low and lowish speeds which is fine but it falls down (as do many police motorcyclists) out on the open road once they engage in high speed pursuits where their counterleaning training causes them to try to force the bike to steer into the turn as opposed to allowing the natural miniscule countersteer that normally occurs, to assist them. Invited to join a large Metropolitan Police Force's 'High Speed Pursuit' training course many years ago I was horrified at some of the things that were taught and encouraged so as to fit in with the 'counter leaning' philosophy which they pushed so hard in the typical enclosed showground type police training arena. This is allied to an absolute over emphasis on 'trusting your treads' and leads many to never properly learn to feel for the approaching limit of tyre adhesion. The number of cops who fall down in rainy conditions because of this is the reason many police forces ground their motorcycle fleet when it's damp and or rainy. Okay, you can start beating up on me now. Cheers Terry.

  • Stavros Petropoulos
    Stavros Petropoulos

    i love this guy!!!!

  • MOTO 809
    MOTO 809

    You haven't leaned enough to know the difference until you've scraped your toes.

  • anchors tn 43
    anchors tn 43

    When I started learning the bike I started to do counter lean but most of them was not agreeing with my point .

  • Ronski C
    Ronski C

    This solidifies F9's point. fibill.info/nick/videot/2HSCi5vHe5OZZ2o JK 😂 just thought about Ryan right away when I saw this vid.

  • keanu kho
    keanu kho

    When doing counter leaning, do you need to do counter steering? Thanks in advance. 😊

  • shannon kennedy
    shannon kennedy

    I think this is the best motorcycle videos and instructor I’ve seen. Great info, personality and humour. Awesome

  • Andy K.
    Andy K.

    Wrong

  • Ellis Tomago
    Ellis Tomago

    Counterleaning makes your fatass cruiser run out of ground clearance quicker. I ride a fatass cruiser, so I am against it.

  • Tommy P.
    Tommy P.

    2:07

  • Mike
    Mike

    Perfect example right here. fibill.info/nick/videot/2HSCi5vHe5OZZ2o

  • MotoKane
    MotoKane

    Always informative. Thank you sir.... 😁😁😁

  • Sebastian Santilli
    Sebastian Santilli

    @6:43 San Francisco pier 30 parking lot

  • Jan Kalin
    Jan Kalin

    Let's get one thing straight: for a given speed and radius, there is exactly one lean angle at which the forces are exactly balanced. You can either: - ride in-line with the bike, where your and bike's COG are aligned, - lean into the turn and raise the bike (thereby lowering you centre-of-gravity COG and raising the bike's COG) - lower the bike and counter balance (thereby raising your COG and lowering the bike's COG). But the combined COG is *always* at the same lean angle relative to the tire contact patch. The different methods of riding have different advantages and disadvantages and it is wrong to say that one is wrong - they are all tools to be used in specific situations. Leaning your body into the turn has one great advantage - with it you approach neutral steering where the force on the handlebars approaches zero. IOW, once you've set the bike into the corner, you can mostly take your hands of the handlebars. If you have cruise control and set the speed, you can literally do a hands-free turn. This has the advantage that you're much more relaxed on the handlebars. If a tire slips slightly, say on some dirt or water, the best course of action is to let the motorcycle do its thing on its own - the more you force it, the more you destabilise it (check out the Twist of the Wrist II video fibill.info/nick/videot/qJmNeJqUqZ2baXc). By keeping the force on the handlebars small to non-existent, you can more easily prevent large control inputs. Another advantage is that the suspension works better when the bike is more upright. On rough roads this means that the suspension can cope better with the bumps. And last, but not least, it lets you ride faster. There are numerous turns in the twisties where I usually ride, where I scrape the pegs even when I lean inside, due to off-camber and bumps in the road. Were I to counter balance, I would crash. OTOH, yes, the counter-lean has its good points. It minimises the width of the bike+rider silhouette, making it safer on narrow roads. And due to a much lower moment of inertia of the bike alone as compared to the bike and rider, it is certainly faster to turn the bike underneath you to achieve the same total lean angle, so you can change directions faster in a slalom.

  • Fotis Tsek
    Fotis Tsek

    Then i lean correct!! Counterlean looks to me more confident and more practical on my mt 07

  • MrGbustamante
    MrGbustamante

    Theres nothing controversial in this video. Ryan clearly states at 4:50 that for city street driving at normal speeds counter leaning is best. This is what they teach at Police Motor Training too. The internet is just stupid and people have poor reading and listening comprehension.

  • f0rkyspo0n
    f0rkyspo0n

    5:48 my god this channel is fucking great

  • Themis Spanopoulos
    Themis Spanopoulos

    Damn I can't even keep up with how fast these jokes are slamming!

  • Little Ocean Drop
    Little Ocean Drop

    Please do this video for bicycles

  • Mike Orange
    Mike Orange

    I like to see you corner a super bike using counter balance 👍🏼

  • nvs
    nvs

    And what about 2 on the bike?

  • deadlymecury
    deadlymecury

    There is a little flaw in physics explanation in this video: if we are talking about momentum - yeah, forces tend to rotate bike. But rotation axis is on the tire-road contact point hence both normal reaction and friction don't rotate bike because its momentums are zero (because levers are zero). The two forces that rotate the bike are gravity and imaginary centrifugal force. If rider doesn't lean his bike - the momentum of gravity force is zero (M=F*R*sin(a) and a is 0) and centrifugal force rotates the bike out of corner. If rider leans his bike - the momentum of gravity force starts to rise from zero (a increases) and the momentum of centriphugal force falls from its maximum (a decreases). But result is same - by leaning the bike we are either commiong to equilibrium of these two momentums - or by further leaning we can increase our turn rate hence increase our turning acceleration and centriphugal force.

  • Mateias Gâscarul
    Mateias Gâscarul

    I have the same watch...

  • Pee Dee
    Pee Dee

    Ryan, a major consideration that I'm not hearing anyone bring up: Camber Thrust. I posted the following on ADVRider. Camber thrust is what turns a motorcycle. Although I don't know the intricacies of camber thrust it is simply demonstrated by a cone rolling in a circular path as it rotates on a flat surface. Because motorcycle tires with their rounded profile equate two cones with their bases joined and the tips being the point through which the axle passes, the more conical (fatter) the shape of the cone the more turning action there is. Flatter, wider tires (which are more like cylinders) do not turn as sharply as rounder, skinny tires (which are more like cones). But, rider weighting affects this, also, in virtue of how much the tire is leaned over. Hang off in the direction of the turn and you maintain the tire in it's more upright position and most flat portion, which is the crown of the tread, and you get minimal turning action. Counterweight the bike and push it down under you and you force the tire into its more leaned over position and conical section and you get maximum turning action. Being upright and counterweighting the bike has benefits for the positioning of the body, but it also makes the bike turn more effectively by virtue of the camber thrust. Leaning off only serves to assist with limited cornering clearance. MotoJitsu's first criticism is silly. Running out of arm length? The point is not to remain stoicly upright but simply to push the bike under when you countersteer. There's no rule saying you can't lean along with the bike. And btw I'm suffering ptsd from your comment re the guy with two penises asking where to start. SMDH.

  • Russ Wellen
    Russ Wellen

    This is like ... counterbalancers finally get to come out of the closet!

  • Billy Atkins
    Billy Atkins

    It seems that the internet is starting to convulse a little over this video. Every video/blog response I’ve seen seems to want to detract from the points made here but then ends up making the same points. My grandpa would have called them mooches.

  • f3rn4ndrum5
    f3rn4ndrum5

    fantastic! I ride a scooter with beefy tires and counterlean for better visibility. sweet video!

  • Kerwin Garcia
    Kerwin Garcia

    Only at low speeds and dirt biking (riding on the dirt has barely any grip unlike the street) leaning away (counter leaning) is good. On the street at a higher speed (30+mph) counter leaning is just going to make the turning radius bigger and make the bike lean further which adds unnecessary risk. You have to remember that on the street you're going to have grip and the centrifugal forces at play almost 100% of the time. This is not a good advice and it will cause a lot of people to be at a higher risk. But most people don't listen to a random person (especially on the internet) unless they're famous like Cardi B or something 😂

  • GK_The_German
    GK_The_German

    Very good explained and I like the physics, but one thing he forgot is to tell (i'm sure he is aware about it): a motorcycle on the road (and there will be traffic) is much more maneuverable when not hanging off the bike. Especially in corners, where a car could arrive on your side or a rock is lying on the road. Hanging off the bike gives you the less possibility to react and to get around an obstacle. It makes only sense on the race track though.

  • GREEN D3ATH
    GREEN D3ATH

    The well placed giggity got me, Ryan. I just crashed 120 hours ago on my 4 month old 2018 ZX10R... slid at ~30 mph on gravel after losing sight line through a sweeping, increasing radius turn. I intentionally lowsided to prevent possibly highsiding through gravel and being thrown over a railing to a ~3 story fall to my death... miraculously my helmet never touched the ground, I only broke my right thumb, and I'm missing about 20 percent of my skin on my left side from the street bonding slide. I am a newfound ATGATT preacher, and I appreciate everything you do for our community. Stay safe ✌🏻

  • hammer 5505
    hammer 5505

    Wow, you really stirred the pot with the other motorcycle channels. Kudos to you.

  • Mr. phenom46
    Mr. phenom46

    #VR46 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

  • Dave
    Dave

    This must be a controversial subject. I've never seen so many "reaction" videos to one of Ryan's videos.

    • Flying Magpie
      Flying Magpie

      There's nothing controversial about it. Ryans conclusion is very biased and mostly wrong, which is ultimately a bad advice, hence so many reactions. Riding positions are a set of tools you use for different situations and goals. You definitely can't ride safe using one tool most of the time.

  • My Motorrad
    My Motorrad

    I have been told from a motorcop it's called the ride hula. It's helped my riding.

  • dashford06
    dashford06

    If you are u-turning, or performing slow turns in the city, yes counter-leaning gives you a tighter turning radius, gives you better visibility and control, everything he said. However he only glosses over the rest of riding, and even in his title states there’s a “wrong way”. Some riders will understand this, and from the comments here it’s clear many do, as that counter-leaning is the only way to turn. This could be dangerous advice. At higher speeds in curvy roads, including many highway access ramps, neutral leaning or even slight body lean into the turn is the proper form to use. Different turning techniques apply to different situations.

  • sokin jon
    sokin jon

    A very powerful video

  • jerry shea
    jerry shea

    Ryan! I ALWAYS appreciate the opinions of some one in the North. Some of the funnest, harshest conditions, an experience some do not understand. Awesome content keep up the good work eh

  • Chance Hooper
    Chance Hooper

    If physics classes were like this, more kids would do well in STEM subjects - the biggest reason kids check out of learning is lack of context for what they’re learning.

  • Joe Pasco
    Joe Pasco

    Just do what feels right.

    • sokin jon
      sokin jon

      love it. You just stirred up the pot! now every moto youtuber is putting their 10 cents in your content. Keep up the great work guys, you are #1 for a reason...

  • khan la
    khan la

    what the f..... is he talking about, should I run it again ?

  • lary angel
    lary angel

    W

  • Gabor Varga
    Gabor Varga

    So. During ‘slow’ speed the counter leaning more useful. But during ‘high’ speed in corner the leaning-style is better. Because the body is leaning not the bike. Same corner, same bike, same driver the angle of bike is higher in counter-leaning style instead of leaning style. In emergency case you can move easely yor body than yor bike.

  • Accurize2 | Survival Gaming Channel
    Accurize2 | Survival Gaming Channel

    Turns out RyanF9, MC Rider and DDFM were all right and Motojitsu was wrong as evidenced by this one, incredibly weird race… fibill.info/nick/videot/ynWRdp_ClqKmYmo

  • MTB & ME
    MTB & ME

    this is one of the best if not,ONE of the best motorbike channels!

  • Benjamín Urzúa
    Benjamín Urzúa

    Hi, anyone knows if this also applies for road bycicles?

  • Tony Boucher
    Tony Boucher

    I tried this leaning method this weekend. I was able to take corners quicker and felt more confident. Visibility of the road was increased.

  • Matt Laidlaw
    Matt Laidlaw

    This info is so on the money. Well done. 🤙🏼

    • VenomInMahEyes
      VenomInMahEyes

      and I didn't even spend my money, so PROFIT.

  • Life is good
    Life is good

    Another great video. Nice work. Beautiful Sir

  • Tom Delozier
    Tom Delozier

    This race has all 3 leaning styles. Auto Race (Japanese paved Flat Track) VS Supercross VS MotoGP . You can see all three leaning styles simultaneously in the turns. fibill.info/nick/videot/ynWRdp_ClqKmYmo

  • Chris Ross
    Chris Ross

    Awesome video.....spawned alot of debate and discussion keep up the good work

  • SA TO
    SA TO

    chooses counter lean for more safety, but practices moto gp style bcoz its cooler 🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • Milo Labrett
    Milo Labrett

    Once watching this I had to double check what I do and I counter lean inhearantly, probably from muscle memory from sleds, skateboarding and riding Moto Cross. I've been doing the right thing and wasn't aware; muscle memory is a strange and elusive creature.

  • theknifesong
    theknifesong

    I like to regular lean on wide, predictable rounded turns with good vision but otherwise counterlean

  • Robert Delisle
    Robert Delisle

    love it. You just stirred up the pot! now every moto youtuber is putting their 10 cents in your content. Keep up the great work guys, you are #1 for a reason...

  • Ratty RatStuff
    Ratty RatStuff

    Ill keep counter leaning constantly cause i ride a supermoto 450r lols

  • Mike Kellam
    Mike Kellam

    Having read through more than a "shit ton" of these comments, I'm going to venture to say, more than 90% of you have NEVER actually RIDDEN a motorcycle.. And yet you seem to "think" you know the difference! Each and everyone of you is the absolute CAUSE of FATAL accidents, in you're precious little Prius, because you have absolutely NO concept of physics, or for that matter, a concept of RESPONSIBILITY, since your Mommy's and Daddy's account for ALL of your affairs. NOW... Go back and actually WATCH the video and LEARN from the next time you pull out from a stop light and cut a motorcyclist off, and then start cussing him out, because YOU perceived HE cut YOU OFF, you know, because YOU were in a hurry to get to Taco Bell Fornine is actually giving you GOOD advice, but you fail to realize the IMPORTANCE of the information your being given. However, Fortnine is ALSO not being forthright in that his video takes NO ACCOUNT for YOUR responsibility as a DRIVER or RIDER on PUBLIC Highways. KNOCK your BULLSHIT off, and THINK when you DRIVE OR RIDE!!

  • Jason Dkhar
    Jason Dkhar

    2:37 Giggity

  • Sean Kagan
    Sean Kagan

    So why does counter learning work? What is the physical explanation? Sorry but I still don't get it...

  • Kia Azarmi
    Kia Azarmi

    Dude, is it safe to say the rider’s angle of dangle is proportionate to looseness of the track he pushes himself into as well as the texture of his knobbly rubber!

  • Tegowner
    Tegowner

    I need MOAR Ryan

  • Beau Robb
    Beau Robb

    Wow. I have never been really comfortable hitting the canyons but I applied these principals to a twisting road route that I know well and the increase in control and confidence was incredible. Thanks Ryan!

  • Sahdah
    Sahdah

    Looks like I have a new skill to practice.

Seuraava